Support Forums

**Mike-N-Tosh** · 12-01-2008, 06:02 PM

This is sooo ironic. Most people code their pages to standards and then have to "hack" it to display properly in IE.

You must have already made some progress, because I viewed it on my Mac with Safari & Firefox. It's the bottom rounded corners that aren't aligned properly when I view it.

Larry is very right in the fact that IE is NOT standards compliant, nor is Frontpage when making it's pages. I'm glad to see that you didn't actually use any of Microsoft's proprietary stuff to make it not work period in other browsers.

I can't spend any time on it now, but I'll take a look later on when I have time and if it's not sorted out by them I'll see if I can offer any suggestions.

-Mike

RandyB · 12-01-2008, 07:52 PM

Well it seems HTML editors aren't what I'm use to. I haven't designed since frontpage was out...LOL I downloaded and tried a couple... no visual editor with Amaya that I could find.....remember I'm not a coder, I like visuals.

Ran a demo of CoffeeCup, tables don't even view properly in thier own viewer after I started a basic template of an outside square with corners! Yes I did my alignment etc....

Kind of gun shy about downloading and trying others because time is valuable.

Guess I need a break because 2 hours of wasted time gets to me.

Well if anyone can offer any more input or ideas to a GOOD working visual editor, please lead the way! Hopefully free or really cheep.

Randy

P.S. I'm not looking to purchase templates. I prefer to learn and build on my own so I can say "I did that". It comes down to the satisfying feeling of accomplishment. If I had the extra cash to purchase everything...... I wouldn't be here............I'd be in Florida or somewhere warm sipping on a frozen margarita...hehe

RandyB · 12-01-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike-N-Tosh

This is sooo ironic. Most people code their pages to standards and then have to "hack" it to display properly in IE.

You must have already made some progress, because I viewed it on my Mac with Safari & Firefox. It's the bottom rounded corners that aren't aligned properly when I view it.

Larry is very right in the fact that IE is NOT standards compliant, nor is Frontpage when making it's pages. I'm glad to see that you didn't actually use any of Microsoft's proprietary stuff to make it not work period in other browsers.

I can't spend any time on it now, but I'll take a look later on when I have time and if it's not sorted out by them I'll see if I can offer any suggestions.

-Mike

That's actually all that's wrong with my template is the bottom corners Mike.

I also tested with most of the more recent browsers on the webpage Check Browser Compatibility, Cross Platform Browser Test - Browsershots That page is a great tool!

I use firefox on the PC I surf with and have IE7.....the pc I use for design and html and WAMP has IE6 on it, never thought of checking with firefox while I was building.

Randy

RandyB · 12-01-2008, 07:58 PM

Sorry, deleted this post.... somehow got a duplicate post.

**Mike-N-Tosh** · 12-01-2008, 09:13 PM

OK, this is going to be a little bit long.
First you have this:

HTML Code:

<body>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<p>
	<script type="text/javaScript">
	<!--
	function MM_openBrWindow(theURL,winName,features) 
	{
	  window.open(theURL,winName,features);
	}
	//-->
	</script>
	<script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/toggle.js"></script>
	<script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/calendar/calendar.js"></script>         
	<script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/calendar/lang/calendar-en.js"></script>         
	<script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/calendar/calendar-setup.js"></script>         
	 <br>

in the body which is a BIG no, no! This line is a duplicate and actually belongs at the very top of the web page before anything else:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
Because you already have that at the very top of the page... Delete it.
Next you have <p> which begins a paragraph that never ends... Delete it.
All the rest of the posted code above (except for the <body>) belongs in the head element (between <head> and </head>).

These things will cause any browser to go into "verbose" mode... this essentially means a "dumb" browser that doesn't know how to render anything.

Next up in your web page code, you have this:
<div align="center">
<center>
Delete all of the <center> and </center>, they are not valid and most likely put there by your frontpage software.

Because this is an xhtml document (as declared above), this means that all html elements have to have an opening and closing to them like <div></div>, <script></script>. There are some elements that don't have an open AND a closing like <br> (break). To close these in an xhtml page you need to do this: <br /> notice the space then the /> This holds true for an image.

You need to close all of your images like this:
<img src="myimage.jpg" />

Now what I believe the cause of the alignment is simply that your table widths DO NOT MATCH.

Your second <table width="100%">, then you have a <td width="100%"> and that's fine. BUT you then have a table in your <td> like this:
<table width="982"> Your first row has <td>'s with widths of 16, 940 and 15 which equals 971, not 982.

The very next row in the same table, you have <td>'s with widths of 16, 15, 911, 15 and 15 which equals 972. To make matters even worse, you have a picture with a declared width of 945 in the <td> with a width of 911.

So my recommendation would be to:
1. Put all the head items in the head.
2. Delete the duplicate document declaration
3. Delete all of the <center></center> elements which are bogus.
4. Fix all img elements with the closing space />
5. Get out your calculator and balance all of your tables.

Hope that helps,
-Mike

RandyB · 12-02-2008, 12:02 AM

Hey Thanks Mike.....probably some errors there because I've been tinkering since my post.

It's funny you mention the part about "<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">"

I don't know if it's the PC but honestly think my mouse is screwing up the code. I have noticed among many of my changes that parts of code etc get dropped into places I didn't put! That seems to be a constant, especially at the end of my template every time I make changes and use the "undo" command in my text editor.

I use frontpage just for the layout and edit everything in MSofts Text Editor.

I'm just going to start from scratch and take your advise. I think my tables layout could be cleaned up considerably now that I've taken a closer look at things.

First I'll change my mouse and get rid of this infra-red thing....it's getting annoying anyway.

I'll let you know how I make out!

Randy

RandyB · 12-02-2008, 02:40 AM

Well I took a break, watch some TV and came back, re-designed the whole template. Which I made several changes to make the tables a lot cleaner. Still no go even with all your advise stripping all the stuff out not needed. I wrapped the outer table with "<center>" tags though because as you can see, everything else now is to the default,.... left.

I'm about to give up and stick with default template....I just don't understand this. I thought I'd learn a bit something creating my own template....but I guess I only learned I'm wasting time. I just hate to go promote my site to only change the look later.... Image is everything.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Randy

**seymourjames** · 12-02-2008, 03:50 AM

It is a constant problem to make templates display correctly in all browsers and all versions. And we sell them for 68C. Moreover, sometimes people do things to their browsers as well with non-compliant plugins which makes the situation even worse.

It is a never ending task and if you decide that you wish to be 100% everywhere it is a long and arduous task. Being practical and realistic, I would make sure that a template shows correctly in the last two versions of the big 3: IE, Firefox and Safari. It is the best you are likely to achieve with a reasonable investment in time and effort.

**Mike-N-Tosh** · 12-02-2008, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyB

...I wrapped the outer table with "<center>" tags though because as you can see, everything else now is to the default,.... left.
...

Randy, I don't know of a way to say this any more clearly. DO NOT USE <center>. The center element is deprecated. In other words, it was dropped from the standard HTML 4.01 elements and is not even recognized at all in xhtml (your declared document type).
Use <div align="center"></div> instead.

-Mike

RandyB · 12-02-2008, 08:25 AM

Sorry Mike, I thought your other post read not to use any "center" tags at all. I just post those temporarily there to please myself having it at least centered overnight.

Eh, it don't matter anyway..... I'll try a different look.......something more kindergarten....LOL

12-01-2008, 06:02 PM	#11
Mike-N-Tosh Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,329 Rep Power: 39	This is sooo ironic. Most people code their pages to standards and then have to "hack" it to display properly in IE. You must have already made some progress, because I viewed it on my Mac with Safari & Firefox. It's the bottom rounded corners that aren't aligned properly when I view it. Larry is very right in the fact that IE is NOT standards compliant, nor is Frontpage when making it's pages. I'm glad to see that you didn't actually use any of Microsoft's proprietary stuff to make it not work period in other browsers. I can't spend any time on it now, but I'll take a look later on when I have time and if it's not sorted out by them I'll see if I can offer any suggestions. -Mike __________________ Mike-N-Tosh v3.1.10 Developer IndianaPC.org - A community website Sandbox v4.0.9, 4.1 Templates, Mods & Docs for sale \| My blog with much content for 68 Classifieds. Web Hosting \| Web Design & Development \| 68 Classifieds Customizations I am not a 68C employee, just a user and try to help out

12-01-2008, 07:52 PM	#12
RandyB Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 54 Rep Power: 3	Well it seems HTML editors aren't what I'm use to. I haven't designed since frontpage was out...LOL I downloaded and tried a couple... no visual editor with Amaya that I could find.....remember I'm not a coder, I like visuals. Ran a demo of CoffeeCup, tables don't even view properly in thier own viewer after I started a basic template of an outside square with corners! Yes I did my alignment etc.... Kind of gun shy about downloading and trying others because time is valuable. Guess I need a break because 2 hours of wasted time gets to me. Well if anyone can offer any more input or ideas to a GOOD working visual editor, please lead the way! Hopefully free or really cheep. Randy P.S. I'm not looking to purchase templates. I prefer to learn and build on my own so I can say "I did that". It comes down to the satisfying feeling of accomplishment. If I had the extra cash to purchase everything...... I wouldn't be here............I'd be in Florida or somewhere warm sipping on a frozen margarita...hehe __________________ New user as of 11-23-08 / 68 Classifieds Ver. 4.0.9 Developer Edition Currently modifying the "Default Template" and everything else I can! This script makes me feel like "a kid in a candy store"! www.maloneads.com - my work slowly in progress.

12-01-2008, 07:58 PM	#14
RandyB Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 54 Rep Power: 3	Sorry, deleted this post.... somehow got a duplicate post. __________________ New user as of 11-23-08 / 68 Classifieds Ver. 4.0.9 Developer Edition Currently modifying the "Default Template" and everything else I can! This script makes me feel like "a kid in a candy store"! www.maloneads.com - my work slowly in progress. Last edited by RandyB; 12-01-2008 at 08:00 PM.

12-01-2008, 09:13 PM	#15
Mike-N-Tosh Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,329 Rep Power: 39	OK, this is going to be a little bit long. First you have this: HTML Code: <body> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <p> <script type="text/javaScript"> <!-- function MM_openBrWindow(theURL,winName,features) { window.open(theURL,winName,features); } //--> </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/toggle.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/calendar/calendar.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/calendar/lang/calendar-en.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="javascript/calendar/calendar-setup.js"></script> <br> in the body which is a BIG no, no! This line is a duplicate and actually belongs at the very top of the web page before anything else: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> Because you already have that at the very top of the page... Delete it. Next you have <p> which begins a paragraph that never ends... Delete it. All the rest of the posted code above (except for the <body>) belongs in the head element (between <head> and </head>). These things will cause any browser to go into "verbose" mode... this essentially means a "dumb" browser that doesn't know how to render anything. Next up in your web page code, you have this: <div align="center"> <center> Delete all of the <center> and </center>, they are not valid and most likely put there by your frontpage software. Because this is an xhtml document (as declared above), this means that all html elements have to have an opening and closing to them like <div></div>, <script></script>. There are some elements that don't have an open AND a closing like <br> (break). To close these in an xhtml page you need to do this: <br /> notice the space then the /> This holds true for an image. You need to close all of your images like this: <img src="myimage.jpg" /> Now what I believe the cause of the alignment is simply that your table widths DO NOT MATCH. Your second <table width="100%">, then you have a <td width="100%"> and that's fine. BUT you then have a table in your <td> like this: <table width="982"> Your first row has <td>'s with widths of 16, 940 and 15 which equals 971, not 982. The very next row in the same table, you have <td>'s with widths of 16, 15, 911, 15 and 15 which equals 972. To make matters even worse, you have a picture with a declared width of 945 in the <td> with a width of 911. So my recommendation would be to: 1. Put all the head items in the head. 2. Delete the duplicate document declaration 3. Delete all of the <center></center> elements which are bogus. 4. Fix all img elements with the closing space /> 5. Get out your calculator and balance all of your tables. Hope that helps, -Mike __________________ Mike-N-Tosh v3.1.10 Developer IndianaPC.org - A community website Sandbox v4.0.9, 4.1 Templates, Mods & Docs for sale \| My blog with much content for 68 Classifieds. Web Hosting \| Web Design & Development \| 68 Classifieds Customizations I am not a 68C employee, just a user and try to help out

12-02-2008, 12:02 AM	#16
RandyB Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 54 Rep Power: 3	Hey Thanks Mike.....probably some errors there because I've been tinkering since my post. It's funny you mention the part about "<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">" I don't know if it's the PC but honestly think my mouse is screwing up the code. I have noticed among many of my changes that parts of code etc get dropped into places I didn't put! That seems to be a constant, especially at the end of my template every time I make changes and use the "undo" command in my text editor. I use frontpage just for the layout and edit everything in MSofts Text Editor. I'm just going to start from scratch and take your advise. I think my tables layout could be cleaned up considerably now that I've taken a closer look at things. First I'll change my mouse and get rid of this infra-red thing....it's getting annoying anyway. I'll let you know how I make out! Randy __________________ New user as of 11-23-08 / 68 Classifieds Ver. 4.0.9 Developer Edition Currently modifying the "Default Template" and everything else I can! This script makes me feel like "a kid in a candy store"! www.maloneads.com - my work slowly in progress.

12-02-2008, 02:40 AM	#17
RandyB Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 54 Rep Power: 3	Well I took a break, watch some TV and came back, re-designed the whole template. Which I made several changes to make the tables a lot cleaner. Still no go even with all your advise stripping all the stuff out not needed. I wrapped the outer table with "<center>" tags though because as you can see, everything else now is to the default,.... left. I'm about to give up and stick with default template....I just don't understand this. I thought I'd learn a bit something creating my own template....but I guess I only learned I'm wasting time. I just hate to go promote my site to only change the look later.... Image is everything. Thanks for everyone's help! Randy __________________ New user as of 11-23-08 / 68 Classifieds Ver. 4.0.9 Developer Edition Currently modifying the "Default Template" and everything else I can! This script makes me feel like "a kid in a candy store"! www.maloneads.com - my work slowly in progress.

12-02-2008, 03:50 AM	#18
seymourjames Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 782 Rep Power: 21	It is a constant problem to make templates display correctly in all browsers and all versions. And we sell them for 68C. Moreover, sometimes people do things to their browsers as well with non-compliant plugins which makes the situation even worse. It is a never ending task and if you decide that you wish to be 100% everywhere it is a long and arduous task. Being practical and realistic, I would make sure that a template shows correctly in the last two versions of the big 3: IE, Firefox and Safari. It is the best you are likely to achieve with a reasonable investment in time and effort. __________________ TemplateCodes.com

12-02-2008, 08:25 AM	#20
RandyB Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 54 Rep Power: 3	Sorry Mike, I thought your other post read not to use any "center" tags at all. I just post those temporarily there to please myself having it at least centered overnight. Eh, it don't matter anyway..... I'll try a different look.......something more kindergarten....LOL __________________ New user as of 11-23-08 / 68 Classifieds Ver. 4.0.9 Developer Edition Currently modifying the "Default Template" and everything else I can! This script makes me feel like "a kid in a candy store"! www.maloneads.com - my work slowly in progress.

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